Comments on Under the Dome: Clingin' to my guns and my religion

"..this is obviously reactionary to the 2008 sh...

2009-01-28T22:58:00.000-06:00
"..this is obviously reactionary to the 2008 shooting at a Unitary Church in the hills of Tennessee."
by Rep. Harrelson

To the honorable Steve Harrelson:

Dude, I do believe you know, or should know, the correct name of the denomination in Tenn where said shooting occurred.

UNITARIAN.

Why bother with concealed weapons?

Since all these frightened, duty-bound folks on here feel safer knowing there are armed protectors in the congregation then why not provide

SHOTGUN DEACONS.

That should do it. Just a couple of deacons on each side of the congregation packing some serious shotguns or laser-sighted .44 magnums ala Dirty Harry.

Special offerings for ammo, shootin lessons, and bullet-proof vests would make keeping the congregation safe an easy, rewarding assignment.

Hell yes! Do it for the Lord.

.

Everyone is assuming that the only time someone is...

2009-01-28T21:51:00.000-06:00
Everyone is assuming that the only time someone is at a church or on church grounds is on Sunday morning during a service. Remember that this law prohibiting a concealed weapon is 24-7 and applies to a secretary who might need to work until midnight alone at the church office. There is no state prohibition against having a concealed gun in other work places, although businesses have the right to make such a rule themselves that apply to their workplace, but it would apply to employees who happen to work for a church and do so into the night and might feel they need protection when leaving at midnight to go to their car.

I have been charged with the protection of my fami...

2009-01-28T20:53:00.000-06:00
I have been charged with the protection of my family both physically and spiritually by God. The law as it stand requires me to choose one duty over the other. This is not right.

"I would not feel comfortable in church knowing that the ushers are carrying guns."

I understand. Unfortunately, watching my family be slaughtered while I am not allowed an effective weapon to stop it would make me even more uncomfortable.

"...it seems wrong to me, against the teachings of Christ about peace and turning the other cheek, to have objects of war and bloodshed in the sanctuary, a place of refuge."

Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple,
and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:'He shall give His angels charge over you,'and,'In their hands they shall bear you up, Lest you dash your foot against a stone.'"
Jesus said to him, "It is written again, 'You shall not tempt the LORD your God.'" Matthew 4:5-7 NKJV

"I have always thought that the Church was a place of peace, a respite from the violence outside. Maybe a church should have a say if members carry guns. If so, I will never join or stay in a church that would condone it."

That should be your choice, just as it is mine to be able to protect my family in church. There have been multiple church shootings in recent months. We should be able to stop these hate crimes.

Great point 4:43

2009-01-28T17:14:00.000-06:00
Great point 4:43

While some disagree with the principal of separati...

2009-01-28T16:43:00.000-06:00
While some disagree with the principal of separation of church and state, for those that truly believe in that principal then they should support this bill.

The existing law is a government mandate that a private entity do what the mass of other private entities are not required to do.

The private entities carved out to prohibit concealed guns are bars and churches, while the rest are prohibitions on government property.

It is a direct government mandate to a church, which is private like Rep. Smith points out, and this bill just exempts churches from the government mandate of how a church should operate. Under existing law, a person can carry a concealed gun pretty much anywhere, even in someone else's home if they tell the home owner they have one. A church can, if this bill passes, have a right to choose if they want to continue the prohibition.

Peter was rebuked for misuse of his sword- not the...

2009-01-28T15:30:00.000-06:00
Peter was rebuked for misuse of his sword- not the possession of it. If it was wrong for him to carry it, surely Jesus would have said something long before that day. After all, Peter had been following him for over 3 years by that point. I doubt his sword had been hidden for that long.
This bill wouldn't make any church allow guns. I would urge everyone to read the bill for themselves rather than just reading the headlines.

First of all, you're wrong that all the anon comme...

2009-01-28T14:50:00.000-06:00
First of all, you're wrong that all the anon comments are from the same person.

Second, you can wear a pistol anonymously but someone can't post anonymously?

Please don't tell me you have an "awesome" responsibility to protect me and my family. You do not. If that's your rationale, stop right there. I don't want it, don't need it, and reject it.

The fact that you've jumped through a few government hoops in no way creates a default assumption that you're a law-abiding citizen, because that can change in a New York minute the second someone cuts you off in traffic.

If you feel safer in church when people are packing, why not get with the elders and raise money for armed guards?

Peter carried a sword, yes -- and was rebuked by Jesus because of it. Matthew 26:52.

I suspect that all the "Anonymous" postings are fr...

2009-01-28T10:39:00.000-06:00
I suspect that all the "Anonymous" postings are from the same person. In the third posting he/she complained that firearms should be worn openly. To that I would ask, why the anonymous posting? Why not wear your identity openly? A few points:

(1) The Arkansas concealed carry law requires that the firearm be worn concealed.

(2) Persons carrying firearms under the concealed carry law can be considered law-abiding by virtue of the fact that they are carrying by permit from the State.

(3) If a person is intent on harming a congregation with a firearm, a regulation forbidding lawfully permitted individuals from carrying concealed handguns in church will not stop that person. However, if there are lawfully permitted armed individuals in the congregation, there is a greater chance that a malcreant intent on doing harm can be stopped.

Concealed carry permit holders are well aware of their awesome responsibility to themselves and to society in carrying a concealed weapon. Otherwise they would not have gone to the trouble to become properly certified and permitted.

I personally would feel much safer in church, and anywhere else, knowing that such individuals are present.

When family and friends in the pews are being blown away by some crazy with a shotgun, it's not the time to be turning the other cheek.

This is not about ushers or preachers carrying gun...

2009-01-28T10:30:00.000-06:00
This is not about ushers or preachers carrying guns on Sunday. It is about church rights. What about the church janitor who is working late into the night? What about the Pastor who has a call to come to his office to counsel some unknown person? This bill would not force any church to do anything. It would, however, allow the church to make its own choice. Safety is the issue and safety is not a feeling- it is an objective. I trust law-abiding citizens with guns. I do not trust those who would do harm with them. A gun-free zone is a defenseless zone. And remember, even the Apostle Peter carried a sword.

Who are these people? Is this why Representative ...

2009-01-28T09:48:00.000-06:00
Who are these people? Is this why Representative Pyle ran for public office? Arkansas continues to be in the bottom quadrant in every relevant national standing. Is this the most innovative idea Representative Pyle has had to make Arkansas a better place?

I wouldn't be a member of a church where the pasto...

2009-01-28T09:38:00.000-06:00
I wouldn't be a member of a church where the pastor was for carrying guns in church.

And if you're going to take a gun to church, then at least wear it openly.

If you are my brother, then why do you hide your pistol from me? Because you don't want me to know.

Why don't you want me to know? Because you suspect I wouldn't lie it, and I wouldn't want to worship with you.

And you're right. Anyone who feels the need to carry a gun to church -- and especially anyone who would lobby for more guns in church -- isn't getting the Gospel.

Instead of working on their quick draw they ought to be reading their Bible.

Forbid the entire state to buy beer on Sunday, Christians and non-Christians alike, and there's no uproar over the separation of church and state.

Forbid carrying a hidden pistol to church, and here comes the uproar.

It's ironic that it's acceptable for the state to pass laws regulating morality, but it's not acceptable for the state to pass laws regulating our safety.

I have always thought that the Church was a place ...

2009-01-28T08:07:00.000-06:00
I have always thought that the Church was a place of peace, a respite from the violence outside. Maybe a church should have a say if members carry guns. If so, I will never join or stay in a church that would condone it.

I too would not feel comfortable in church knowing...

2009-01-28T06:47:00.000-06:00
I too would not feel comfortable in church knowing that people might be carrying guns. Also, it seems wrong to me, against the teachings of Christ about peace and turning the other cheek, to have objects of war and bloodshed in the sanctuary, a place of refuge.

1) Rather than having the state decide, let's lea...

2009-01-28T00:43:00.000-06:00
1) Rather than having the state decide, let's leave it to the churches.
2) I have Jewish friends who have said there are times when they would be more comfortable armed than not.
3) Not all churches are in places where the sanctity of the church is respected. If the congregation says, "You know, maybe it would be nice if brother Joe was armed for Wednesday services", then let's leave it up to the congregation for that decision.
4) This doesn't force anyone to do anything. It puts the decision making process back where it belongs: The property owner. Let's not have the state sticking its nose into church business.

I would not feel comfortable in church knowing tha...

2009-01-27T21:03:00.000-06:00
I would not feel comfortable in church knowing that the ushers are carrying guns. I look forward to finding out how this plays out in your committee. Thanks for the post!